What's going into?

This topic contains 16 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  watfordwolf 8 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #751334

    andyy
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    I really don’t understand what’s going on at the moment! Three times we have been 1-0 up and playing well and yet we end up with 1 point, shipping 8 goals and looking clueless.

    I didn’t see the Sheffield Wednesday game but we looked good for large parts of the Forest game and the first 3o ish mins of the Leeds game was as good as we have playedfor a very long time. Against Leeds We looked a very good side…..until we lost the lead and then we completely capitulated. It was if we had become a completely different side.

    I have never seen such a turn round in performance before.

    I have to say I was surprised to see Golbourne dropped as I think he has played ok this season. I was happy to see Henry in the #10 role (and would probably have done that several weeks ago, albeit with RVLP on the right then as I’m not an Edwards fan. We look good going forward, and I really think that in Graham we have found a good replacement for Sako but there is a yawning gap between the back 4 and the midfield. The CBs look leaderless and they aren’t getting protection from the Central midfield.

    What to do? We have finally started playing 4:2::3:1 which was successful for us last year and which I argued for a few weeks ago and it works well going forward but it’s not giving us the strength in midfield defensively. We need a Williamson type back and we need a Paul Ince or Alex Rae type to play in front of the back 4 to lead and break the play up. Perhaps we should go 4:3:2:1?

    Trouble is that I don’t see our squad having those sorts of players available, they are too lightweight and the new signings haven’t added any quality or competition to the midfield. Maybe try and convert Golbourne or Doherty into that sort of defensive midfielders?

    Is Jackett the right man for the job? You have to ask that question. I think he has done very well for us but maybe it’s time for him to go and get a different voice and ideas in. But, the financial situation remains the same so who would you get? Maybe time to give Gary Monk a call? Sorry but it’s time to say “no Jackett required”.

    #751583

    andyy
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    • :

    Of course, the title of the thread should, “what’s going on”! Finger trouble!

    #752078

    dickvanwolf
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    Well Andy I see you have finally come round to my way of thinking on the Kenny situation (not sure about the pun mind;). The thing is that the team may not be good enough for the promotion push promised but lets be honest we are at least a mid-table squad (cough, where I predicted we would finish without replacing Sako). Yes the team needs improving but I can’t help looking at the squad and thinking that someone like Mick (who I admit I was not a fan of) would have this team comfortably in the top half at least, to be honest with a striker like Benik and a good loan he would probs have us about where Ipswich are. And the reason is simple even if I don’t like Mick there is no denying that he is good at this level, always has been. Kenny on the other hand NEVER has been, he’s been consistent yes, reliable maybe but never good!

    For me his tactics (or lack of) are just to lacking in direction and/or are too dated to really be useful, look at his game management for example. These days most managers will ALWAYS use the bench, either to chase or secure but they should at least know how. Jackett sadly has never shown that ability!

    I also go back to a couple of the old issues that rumbled on here over the summer. Many of us predicted that our transfer policy would implode and frankly it has done precisely that! How I bet Kenny regrets his ‘footballing reasons’ which saw him fire sale Stearman simply to raise cash for Nathan Byrne who he has barely used anyway! We’ve gone from having one of the top teams for clean sheets in the league last season to relegation candidates! I’m not saying that was because Stearman was brilliant, far from it he had his faults but he also had experience and a calm head. Something which our defense and therefore the team now completely lack!

    Personally if I was Kenny I would go for a 3-5-2 with the limitations of the squad; Batth,Llandell,Iorfa with Golbourne and Byrne playing wing backs. That way you could actually play Price, Macca and Coady in the same team. Mind you none of that means anything as Kenny would never make a big change to the team at this stage, he seems scared to even rotate players these days!

    Whats the answer well funny you should mention a certain Mr Monk as just before replying to this I started my own thread asking the same question! For me it would be a great move forwards but sadly with the clubs current predicament I fear he could be a bridge to far ;(

    #752174

    andyy
    Participant
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    Dick I am probably more in favour of KJ than you because I do think he did an outstanding job in the last 2 season in getting bus to where we finished last year – beyond expectation – dealing with the “bomb squad”, keeping Sako for as long as he did, keeping Dicko and bringi g in some talented youngsters. However 99% of managers outlive their time, and sadly that time has come.

    I would give Gary Monk a call now, because a new manager needs the whole of the January window to try to deal. There’s no doubt we need to wheel and deal to get some experienced blood in to add to the team.

    I do think we have some decent players. Afobe, Dicko, Graham, Henry, Price, Iorfa and Ikeme but as always at Wolves the squad is always too thin with not enough quality on the bench or to provide competition.

    I do think that the decision to sell Stearman was very odd and has come back to haunt us. I also think the goal keeping decisions were odd, but whether that was down to KJ or forced on him we will never know.

    Whatever, I think it’s time for another voice in the dressing room and a different plan.

    #752672

    dickvanwolf
    Participant
    • :

    Andyy- Thats fair he has done a decent job but I think as we are seeing now it was a job that was made FAR easier by inheriting Sako (who for me covered a LOT of our midfield frailties in the last couple of seasons). Also as for ‘keeping’ Sako I think we should be thanking Sakos agent for that not Kenny or the club. It was made abundantly clear over the summer that Sakos loyalty was really based on his longing for a £50k+ contract which he now has and NEVER would have got if not taken on a free! Fair play to him, I’m not bitter about it but think we should start seeing it for what it really was rather than any pretense of loyalty from the player or feigned ambition on the clubs part.

    For the rest mind I think your spot-on, especially in that managers generally do outlive there welcome, just the nature of the business. Also spot on regarding the need to move for Monk asap! I hate to encourage such things but with him being out of work could the club not quietly sound him out before making a decision on Kenny? I don’t like it but lets be honest everyone else in this business operates in a ‘club comes first’ manner; maybe its about time we did the same?

    #752720

    watfordwolf
    Participant
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    Understand the points made here but I generally believe clubs get rid of managers too early (Taylor springs to mind) so I think stick with KJ. I am also conscious that no matter how badly or brilliantly he does for the remainder of the season he may well end up getting sacked by the new Chairman who will want his own man. This scenario will also make it difficult to attract a new manager right now. So stick with KJ and most importantly back him in transfer window. Number 1 priority get Williamson back !

    #752735

    dickvanwolf
    Participant
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    Watford- I get your point on the waiting for the new owners I really do, cause like you say its a tough sell. But the problem here is as I said if you look at our West Midland (Prem) counter parts they have been up for sale for between 2-5 years and thats a LONG time and more worryingly a LOT of mis-spent budgets. Thats my main issue with keeping Kenny this season, we just aren’t getting enough quality at the moment. Granted that may not be his fault (Thelwells responsibility) but for me its one or the other cause the current system just doesn’t seem to be working in the transfer windows!

    All that said I’ve just seen the news that Zyro could FINALLY be on his way! I do hope its true cause wingers and pace are much needed right now (although I admit thats is about all I know about him). Although it does maybe show the biggest failing at the club right now. The fee is said to be £350k cause he’s run down his contract which realistically means he probs would have been available for £800k- £1m (admitted, guess work) at the start of the season. So Kenny wanted just that to replace Sako and still our board didn’t back him?!

    If we get him and Williamson then maybe Jackett could steady the ship but even then to what end? I mean if it does take (for example) three years for any REAL movement on the sale, well what then? Be honest Watford do you really believe that Jackett has the tactics and drive for a REAL promotion push? Cause whilst he comes across well enough I just don’t see it! Truth is for me much of this is based on losing interest in my season ticket, still going of course but we have been poor at home pretty much ALL season. And between that and a lack of clean sheets we just look seasons away from a genuine playoff push right now!

    #752777

    andyy
    Participant
    • :

    I think Dick is right about the time it takes to sell a club. Everton have been for sale for 10 years, I think. And who knows what sort of owner we get.

    The thing is that the value of the club goes down if we are flirting with relegation, we need action now.

    The thingabout the Zyro deal is that we have a fair few wingers in the books now, and Henry and Graham are doing a very good job. The priority is a decent CB and probably a defensive midfielder in a system that can respond to pressure and provide the platform for our good attacking play.

    #756191

    manzikert1071
    Participant
    • :

    I’m sticking with Kenny. He’s made a damned good fist of it considering he hasn’t got control over who he gets – insofar as he’s likely to get the tenth on his wish list rather than the first – and if he’d been backed properly last season we’d have been in the Prem by now. If we get Williamson the defence should settle down as every time we get attacked the rest of the team must fear the worst and a bit of confidence there, as we have seen, works wonders. We will lose Afobe but that was always on the cards after we’d missed out on promotion last year, and hopefully we can get a ‘good enough’ centre forward In Jan to replace him.
    I still blame Morgan’s appalling timing, temperament and lack of footballing nous, as well as Moxey’s ultra-conservative approach to the finance of the club. We have to remember that we are in limbo now because Morgan has made his money back and wants a profit to spend after his break-up; this is another example of his awful sense of timing and his self-obsessive nature, brought on by the fans’ natural response to the fiasco he brought about by effectively promising to replace Sako then chickening out.
    Will we get a worse or better chairman once Morgan has gone? Who knows, but he’s made his decision. Would we get a better manager than Kenny if we got rid of him? I don’t think so, and there is no compulsion for him to go.
    I’m angry and upset and fear Reading (whom I dislike a lot after that 2-1 win in time added on years back, and the obscene gloating that followed) might thrash us, but my New Year’s wish is that Kenny gets what he wishes for.

    #756848

    andyy
    Participant
    • :

    There was a robust defence of KJ in the E and S, making the case to keep him and back him. That’s fair enough, and the article made it clear that others also have to shoulder some of the blame for our current situation. Of course, there is no one person to blame, but I think any ideas that we are going to get new players in to cover our deficiencies is dream land at the moment, so the Manager has to make the current squad perform. I don’t think KJ can do that nay more – and I really hate saying that – so, in my view it’s time for a change.

    Does anyone really think that Williamson is going to come back? I hope so, but he is on Premiership wages and I can’t see us paying what he wants.

    #883153

    andyy
    Participant
    • :

    When I started this thread a couple of months ago, I was reluctantly of the opinion that KJ should go. I really think he had gone as far he could. Then came a run of 4 very good results and I thought I was wrong and that we had turned a corner.

    Now, however, I think that things are worse than ever. Sure we have been unlucky with injuries but that’s what the squad is for, to cover fr that and provide competition. We should have been able to cope but many of our decent performers from last year are now below par and the new guys (Rowe, Saville, Wallace etc) just aren’t up to it, whilst the youngsters are inevitably struggling at times.

    I don’t think it’s helped by the changing system – we have used, 4:4:2. 4:2:3:1. 4:3:3 and even 4:4:1:1 and and 4:3:2:1 at times this season. Trouble is that none of it works.

    It pains me to say it, but I have returned to the view that Jackett should go. This season is a write off but we are going backwards and need to arrest the slide towards the bottom. We are displaying relegation form and only seem to be able to camp in our own 18 yard box, invite pressure and play hoof ball forward. It’s not good enough. Time for a change.

    The transfer window has gone, but a new person should be able to stabilise things, assess the squad and then use the rest of the season and the summer to prepare for next season.

    Thanks KJ, I will be grateful for getting us out of Div 1 and for a good season last time round but it’s time to go.

    I see that many blame Morgan and Moxey for our current predicament, and we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, so maybe KJ has been let down by the lack of player investment but I still say that he should be able to get this remaining squad of players to perform better than they are against the likes of Bolton, Preston, Huddersfield and Brentord etc.

    Who to bring in? Gary Monk for me.

    #883300

    watfordwolf
    Participant
    • :

    Andy I understand your reasoning even your choice but why would Monk come ? Until the club is sold I cant see any decent manager touching us .

    #883366

    andyy
    Participant
    • :

    The club could take 10 years to sell, so until it is sold Morgan and Moxey need to run it as if nothing has changed. They will only realise any value in the club if it is in a reasonable state.

    I have no doubt that the infrastructure is good and we have a good youth policy and academy but the first team is what generates revenue and its that that needs sorting out.

    Monk may not come, but the Board need to start looking for KJs replacement Asap.

    #883393

    watfordwolf
    Participant
    • :

    I think ten years is a bit OTT but what would they offer Monk if that threat hangs over him ? I would argue that we stick with KJ support him strongly in the loan market (one today). Move heaven and earth to sell the club by the summer but if that doesn’t happen then get Morgan to step back in . In that scenario whoever is in charge the manager can be changed and a good one brought in.

    #883447

    andyy
    Participant
    • :

    An interesting read:

    http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/search/leisure-businesses-for-sale/articles/buying-a-football-club

    Why would anyone buy a low middle table Championship club? People do, but it’s not easy to find them. Wolves are supposed to debt free, I think, but SM is also rumoured to want £30-50M.

    I read somewhere that Everton had been for sale for 10 years. Yes, here you go, Everton up for sale since 2007.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34548860

    #886195

    dickvanwolf
    Participant
    • :

    Interesting debate guys, you both know where I stand on this one (but gonna say it anyway;)..Andy is right, as I’ve said before far more lucrative Prem clubs have been struggling to sell for ages now so whilst ten years may seem extreme (Everton to be fair have taken AGES to sell because Kenwright LOVES the club and will only sell to a billionaire, also because they can’t expand there stadium) BUT you equally have to look at Villa and Brom and say we would be VERY lucky if it took less than five years which is still a very long time to be treading water with Kenny and more to the point hemorrhaging season ticket holders!

    Also Watford you say about Morgan stepping back in which may seem like a good idea in theory but have you seen ANYTHING to suggest that he would have the slightest interest in doing so? Because I haven’t in fact after the way things went I wouldn’t be surprised if he has weekly chuckles at our current plight, with a macabre ‘careful what you wish for’ attitude!

    I do think Kenny has been stitched up by the board but equally I think he has made that rod for his own back by being a yes man for so long that he no longer has the credibility to speak out. Also Watford you say about the fact of ‘who would come’ well I think if we did it now you would be surprised! Many managers can struggle for work and disappear from the game when out for too long (just as Glenn Hoddle learnt, he’s always in for EVERY job but never gets an interview) so I think again it would be presumptuous to assume that a manager like Monk (with only 18 months experience in the job) would turn down a decent wage in a guaranteed job offer today when there might not be a better one tomorrow?! Also here its not just Monk, what about Clement or hell even Lennon must be sick of embargoed Bolton?! The point is I think if we strike early as in over the next month or so we might just get someone half decent, the REAL danger here is we wait until the end of the season. When suddenly relegated teams and some lower Prem teams are looking as well, then we really have NO chance of getting anyone decent. Also Watford you say about ‘why would they come when the new board could sack them’ well I’ll tell you why because football management is a great gigg for one reason and one reason only….its one of the only jobs in the world that when you get fired you get pretty much your whole contract paid out, now that’s an incentive in itself! Not to mention as I’ve pointed out before its only in about 50% of buy outs where the manager gets fired, just ask Mick! What if just like Mick we took on Monk and the new board realised he is as good as we can get right now, can you REALLY see them coming straight in and firing him with grand plans of Jose or Pepe cause somehow I just can’t see it!

    Andy’s also right in regards to the simple fact that even under the clubs restraints Jackett is performing way below expectations! Yes we miss Benik but none the less you don’t expect them to be struggling to maintain an (undeserved) lead at home to Bolton! As I’ve said before this may be at this stage just a preemptive debate because if we keep playing the way we are and losing the way we are I really don’t see how even our board could not fire him?! Mind you the incompetence of our board is just about the ONLY thing that dwarfs the incompetence of our manager so who nows eh! ;(

    #886525

    watfordwolf
    Participant
    • :

    Dick a response before I take my position behind the sofa for the Derby game. The amount of money required to buy a prem club with the TV money is huge compared with us. In Everton’s case Kenright’s case he will only sell if the buyer will fund a push for Champions league that is lot of money on top of that. As for Morgan if we don’t sell by the summer he has two choices- drop the price or step back in. Any new manager wants to know what the plan for the club is and a budget. Right now all we can offer him is uncertainty. Finally in defence of KJ (not denying he has made loads of mistakes) he has out 6 first team players right now ( excluding the loss of Sako and Afobe) and that must have a huge impact. Now back to the game – I am not looking forward to it.

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