Would You??I Wouldn't

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  • #1751643

    steve68
    Participant
    • :

    i can’t believe there’s gooners who would gladly see us lose the final
    as long as the spuds lose the champs lge final.sorry,i find that a very
    selfish act because those who think that are thinking of themselves and
    not the players and staff and,lets be honest here,trophies are not
    handed out on a plate every season,you have to earn them.

    if the spuds win the champs lge might be hard to bear but all we can do
    is back OUR team and hope and pray it’s a reds double in europe.if not
    i want us to win beccause our european trophies are a disgrace for a
    club of our stature globally.if the spuds win it’s a hard pill for us
    to swallow but there’s absolutely no way i want us to lose just to
    justify them going the same.i hate afc losing any game let alone a
    final so there’s no chance i want us to lose if it meant the spuds did
    too.

    #1751674

    stev2bath1
    Participant
    • :

    I am sorry but obviously I want us to win but all worst cases for me is spurs winning.

    #1751738
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    About 5-6 years ago,When this club use to actually compete for the trophy but bottle in the end,Many fans use to say why are we even still comparing ourselves to spuds,we’re way above them and we should compare ourselves to the best in the PL.

    Today,we are in such a pathetic situation that fans are ready to sacrifise their own club’s success for to see someone else not to win it.I get it,the neighbourly rivalry will always be there but i honestly feel fans who’d rather not see their club win a trophy just to see someone else not win it have reached a real low.

    We’ve gone so backwards.we’ve changed CEO,Managers,players.But there’s only been one constant.And it’s the owner stan kronke.We are just going backwards and backwards ever since he took over the club,and the only way we see any sort of success is to hope that the manager massively overachieves!

    #1751833

    stev2bath1
    Participant
    • :

    Every Gooner I have put this two has said the same. You are the odd one out here. You obviously don’t get the rivalry against spurs that most Gooners feel which is up to you. All fans want us to win and spurs to loose as first option anything else is a disaster.

    #1751852
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    my god nothing changes on here!
    YES it IS ALL silent stans fault, we KNOW this, nothing will change while he is in charge….

    as for the rest, seriously if ANY Arseanl fan would rather win the EL if it meant the spuds winning the CL and think its “OK” then as steve above says they just dont get the rivalry…..

    its bad enough not celebrating St Tottingham day let alone putting up with them winning the CL….

    i couldnt stomach it, if it meant we HAD to lose the EL so they didnt win the Cl then im all for it!!!

    as thats not the case i hope we win the EL and the spuds get humilated in an unevn contest and tank in the CL final!!!

    Arsenal “fans” have to be the strangest bunch……

    #1751855
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Actually,I’m not the odd one out because steve68 would rather see a club win a trophy over someone else no matter what it is.And might I add some other people i know as well.Saying that,I didn’t actually answer the question asked on this thread,that particular question.

    I understand the club rivarly very well and the last thing we need is to let the spuds banter us about them having a CL trophy.Saying that,i merely pointed out what a low point fans have reached and how it’s a new age where the fans would rather not see their own club win their first European trophy ever no matter what the case.

    But to answer your question stev,in this particular circumstances Like I said I’m past caring about us winning anything.Under any other circumstances sure I’d like to have won that European trophy but now I don’t care.For me the real victory to see this owner and all his appointees(bar emery and his team) ousted.Whether we win or don’t win,it’s not going to make any difference whatsoever.Infact,Since the fans care so much about Spuds not winning it,believe me when I say this I’d rather see us lose the Europa final and as much as it would pain me Spuds win that UCL trophy.
    Maybe then it would put some sense for this club to rebel against the owner STAN KRONKE who’s the real villian.I’m sick and tired of being negative and having no hope for this club.I want to support this club whole heartedly and that can only happen when we have a new owner who appoints someone who knows how to run the club and manage it’s resources well.So in this one exceptional case,I’m past caring.All I care is for the greater good of this club and no matter what it takes to get there.

    #1751925

    Madmaxsdaddy
    Participant
    • :

    Where did this question come from? Wierd? Of course we want to win a European trophy. What’s it got to do with Spurs?

    #1751965

    stev2bath1
    Participant
    • :

    Wtf tso I will not start insults again but I was close ! You have just said you would rather us loose and spurs win so we would rebel against the owner??? Just think about what you have just said and that you are a true Arsenal fan because no Gooner would ever say that! This owner rant, as valid as it may be is no excuse. I actually don’t agree with you but even if I did I would never ever say that. tSo you are a fan of Arsenal fc and our arch rivals are spurs we never ever wish that scenario ever and without insulting you please sort yourself out there is nothing you will ever say that excuses that please take a look at yourself and retract that statement!

    #1751973
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Stev – No need to exchange insults,this forum hasn’t spiralled into that vaccum since the couple of perpetrators left it for good so please let’s just keep it at that.

    Please though,come out of the little bubble you’re in.You claim I’m the only one who would want to see Arsenal winning a European trophy even though it meant Spuds winning the CL.There are atleast 3 people on this thread that are of the same opinion,and really don’t care about what other teams achieve or don’t achieve.I mean think about it,and I’m just generalising.Would you rather see us not win the trophy the club has never won in their history just to see someone else win or not win something which has absolutely no relevance to Arsenal.

    As for you having a go at me.I’ll say it again.It is just a wierd alternative,but if you tell me right now that we get to see spuds win the CL,and Arsenal not win the EL and that would guarantee that Kronke sold all his shares to someoneelse(anyone) this summer,as much as it would pain me to see spuds lifting the CL trophy I’d take that without thinking twice.How foolish can some fans be,do you not see this club is in a path of destruction under Silent stan.
    Ornstein who’s basically fed inside information by the club claims we only have 40m to spend,and if we qualify for the CL about 70m.

    So here there are fans talking about a mass overhaul of the squad.what the hell are we going to achieve with 70m,you wouldn’t get Zaha’s right nut for that much in today’s market.Get real,it’s called having priorities and for me I have only one focus and that’s to get kronke out of the club.I’ll bet you on it,we won’t get top 4 for the next couple of years as well if we continue on this same non ambitious path.Are you ok with that?

    #1751995
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    nothing changes on here…

    its a silly question as its not a linked thing, but hypoithetically if the 2 were linked..ANY sane Arsenal fan would NEVER have a spuds team win the CL under any circumstance let alone for opur team (who as many say are poorly run by poor owners) can win a second rate trophy that will mean less as we wont use it as a spring board for bigger and better things

    that said, it is a shame that the only ansswer to any question relating to our club or playershas to have the same answer each time (Kronke)…..

    the potential discussions never get past that and there is much more to discuss and look at WITHIN the structure that WE DO have and can do little about changing anyway

    #1752019
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    So i guess steveO you’re calling three people insane over here,just because their priorities lie with Arsenal first.While on the other hand your priorities lie with what other clubs achieve or don’t achieve.In theory,you’re priotitizing other clubs Over your own.

    This Europa league trophy is not a second rate trophy,it’s something this club has never won in our history before.I mean the nerve of some people,you want to call it a second rate trophy.We haven’t played in the CL for a couple of season,and now we have a chance to win a trophy that we’ve never before and inturn qualify for a “first rate trophy” and you fans would give up acheiving that just because you don’t want some Other team to win something else so that they wouldn’t banter you.I guess football is all about banter and nothing else.

    As for Kronke,we’ve been over this way too many times.Unless you’re ready to change your mentality of treating this club as some sort of dictatorship like North Korea where Arsenal fans just have to accept whatever shit kronke is feeding us then there’s no point discussing further on it.The fans make up the club,if we really want together we can chase Kronke to a point he’d think a better decision would be to sell his shares.But clearly you just want to accept whatever he’s giving you.Or maybe your ambition is exactly what we’ve been acheiving,top 6 and nothing else as you seem to accept and be ok with it.I’m not,and for me no matter what the only real victory would be to see Kronke out the club.Every single problem leads back to his lack of ambition,today if we had a slighly more ambitious owner who even though didn’t invest his own funds but atleast appointed the correct people to run a football club and atleast took action when it’s not being run correctly,then we’d atleast be in the CL.Some of you guys will never understand my point.

    #1752077
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    TSO, lets be clear
    as an Arsenal Supporter for over 40 years, the rivalry is real and always has and will be, the question in itself is a little silly but taking it as it is there is only one answer…

    the souds even making the final was excruciating, i want them to fail and fail big and always be in our shadow, they are currently not and as you rightly say thats down to us and Kronke

    id love for us to win the EL or any other trophy no matter who the opwner is, but the mere thought of the spuds winning the CL is sickening

    this is what i and Stev are trying to get over

    maybe its different age groups or demographics but the way i was riased was to hate tottenham and i do

    i love going to a PL game against any other opposition and having the stadium stand uo becaus ehtye hate tottenham even though we arent playing them! thats the point, its a real rivalry and its a painful one at the moment and will be more so and forever more if they win the CL

    as for your last point i agree mostly, we have been over it many times, unortuantley your answer to every thread no matter the subject is that!! true as it may be no one is protesting no one is doing anything so lets just broaden our views on things arsenal and discuss within the confines we find ourself so we can actually debate….

    the sad thing is TSO I and many others actually do understand your point, we have agreed but we also live in the real world and dont want to get stuck on this one point over and over ad infinitum as its frankly boring…

    id love for a new owner to come in and run us properly, but back in the real world we go with what we have and have no power to change

    #1752089
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Steve0 – I wasn’t born and bought up in North London,but liKE I said I use to attend games whenever I could when I was in the city.However,I do understand the rivalry very well.Infact,due to the rivalry I do understand to an extent why fans wouldn’t want Spuds to win the CL over anything else.That won’t though stop me from saying what a sad state of affairs it has become at this club,where the fans would literally give up winning a trophy this club has never before which also guarantees qualification into the CL only to see our mighty neighbours not win something else.Believe it or not,it should not take for Spuds to win the CL for us to realise what a pathetic situation it is at our own club.I mean think of it,there is a team who hasn’t signed a single player for the past two transfer windows while also not playing at their real ground for the most part.The fact that they’re in the CL let alone the CL final should be embarrasing enough,if not a wake up call for this club to do take the necessary action.You know why that is,it’s not because spuds spend more than us,it’s because of the way their club is run.From top to bottom.They sell players more than their worth,their wage structure is below ours,they’ve appointed a very capable manager as he’s proved and they make the right signings at the right price.IT’S THE WAY THE CLUB IS RUN.

    Everything goes back to the owner and who he appoints.And for our case,I will always disagree to anyone who says that nothing can be done.Think of this scenario,and it’s a hypothetical one.Next season if we’re relegated,then what would fans do.call for emery’s head instead of kronkes.Say we change three managers after that and we still don’t get promoted to the PL.So you think the fans will keep quiet then?no they’ll eventually call for Kronke’s head.The real question is what will it take to get there.Because that for me is a majorly pro-active aclub.Do we actually need to get relegated,or change three or four managers before fans realise Kronke has been the problem all this while.Under him,this season we are at an operating loss of 60m.For me,he simply needs to go.That’s the biggest victory for me.Over anything else.And just from my personal point of view,if you’re asking me If spurs won the CL and it meant kronke walked this season,I’d take it.Because I believe in the greater good.I believe we’ll have more of a chance of winning trophies every damn season.If we have a slightly more ambitious owner,who knows maybe just maybe we ourselves might be in a CL final.Because I’ll guarantee you on thing,Under kronke we’ll never be in a CL final again.I mean,will we even be in the CL?

    #1752118
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    you do have a handy habbit of making my point! 🙂

    #1752141

    stev2bath1
    Participant
    • :

    It makes sense you are not local so you know about the rivalry but not sure you fully understand it or even feel it! Your main point on you would do whatever for long term sake of the club even at the cost of Spurs winning I understand now as you don’t have the rivalry that others have and maybe its a generation thing.
    As I have said before we could have better owners but I feel its a poor excuse. Less well run clubs than ours with worst budgets have achieved greater things this season. Who is a well run club and does that guarantee success? Liverpool I would say are good now but that changed as they made 120 million from one player! Manu is just so massive commercially they have so much money but fans now not happy with board, Man city is not comparable. Spurs have done well but I feel that is in spite of Levi and the board as they have given Poch no money and don’t pay the biggest wages.

    #1752151
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Stev – Nothing Guarantees success.What matters are your chances for success.If another owner took over and made the right appointments,our chances of success would increase triplefold.
    I actually don’t think there are many fans out there that still understand how badly run this club is.And also,I find it incredibly stupid for anyone to say that they would sacrifise high chances of years of success say for the next decade just to see a rival not win one trophy(Granted a big one) for one year.
    IN THEORY,Again no matter how bigger the rivalry is you’re basically saying it’s Ok Arsenal don’t win major trophies for the next century as long as you see Spuds not win it.Again,difference in ambition…

    Let me ask you this question- Would it be ok with you If I said Spuds would win the CL this year,but Arsenal changed their owner and we’d win the CL 3 years later?

    #1752156
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    no

    simple answer

    they would hold it over us forever as we would them….

    as for the rest, if Usmanov had bought us instead of Kroenke then we would have won loads but likley be in a similar position as city..hated for the “way” it was achieved and about to be hit with fines and bans etc for breaching FFP…and i guarantee YOU and the rest of us would be defendng our team and owners and loving the joy of winning

    i think we arent as badly run as you say, taker the “money clubs” out of the equation and we are not so bad off….

    expectations? NONE because its football and its about so much more than money

    no one has a god given right, we did well for a small time under AW, that was our time, competing against Man U as the only ones, then chelsea took over now its city and pool…

    us winning and spuds not winning are NOT linked hence a silly quation and conversation but the hypothetical answer is what it is to the hypothetical question!

    i want to won the EL, and move on under emery and revamp the squad all beit shopping in the lower tiers and let the money clubs fight it out and change managers and change owners like arevolving door, we are trying to stay within means….

    youd be in a coma if you supporte3d a lower club and hadnt been spoilt by a lucky AW appointment!!!

    #1752157
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    TSO

    we have Kroneke…he OWNS the club, its HIS to do with what he wants no matter how much we hate it

    can you provide ANY response to ANY thread without banging the same drum? point well made Sir but it is what it is……

    and i would take not winning the EL if it means souds dont win the CL every day to internity….

    “global fans” do love the clubs they support but they really really dont understand the club, values and history outside of “stats”….

    i may like a european club or a club in american football etc i may know a lot about the sport but i wouldnt know what local fans know or think the same way, its natural, not a stick to beat you with but you must understand surely….

    try a non KRONKE response once in a while?

    #1752250

    stev2bath1
    Participant
    • :

    Tso the answer no as steve said. As I said if you understand the rivalry under no circumstances do I ever want them to win it and no chance before us even if guaranteed to win 3 years. Also change of ownership guarantees nothing as you said unless we get a Roman or a sheikh then all that guarantees is money.

    #1752343
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Don’t get me wrong,I may not have the feeling of the North London Rivalry to the same extent as you guys,but I do have that feeling and understand it very well also.
    However,I find it utter stupidity that you guys would miss out on winning the most prestigious competetion in the world so long as the mighty neihbours don’t win it,espescially before us.
    That,in a literal sense,is prioriising another club over your own.

    No one wants spuds to win anything(although I did list one exception for me and tbh i’d go to any lengths to see Kronke out the club),but to not want your team to win the CL so long as Spuds don’t win it.That’s the question I asked,and both of you basically are insinuating that you don’t care about the CL so long as Spuds don’t get their hands on it.I guess the answer to my other hypothetical question of whether it would be ok for you to see Arsenal not win anything in the next century(not one single trophy) so long as Spuds don’t win as well in that period would also be the same.

    I’ve always said I call it like i see it,and unless the ambitiion of fans itself is improved this club isn’t going to move forward.

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